Will AI Recommend Your Business? AEO Explained

Will AI recommend your business? Only if it trusts you enough to name you. In this 31-minute conversation, Simon Young of Question.marketing, Pola Ariel of Stay Branded and Dr Jorge Raziel explain the difference between being cited and being chosen by ChatGPT, Gemini, Perplexity and Google AI Overviews, and what business owners can do about it.

Watch the full conversation above, or the highlight cut on YouTube.

What is the difference between being cited and being chosen?

A citation means your page was one of the pieces the AI used to put its answer together. A recommendation means it said your name. Simon's point is that only the second gets the phone ringing, and that getting chosen follows a specific process: how your site is read, traditional SEO, and trust from third parties.

Why can one small mismatch knock you out?

If Facebook says you open at 10am and Instagram says 8am, an AI engine reading both sees a conflict. Jorge's advice: check your website, social channels and listings such as Yelp and Google Business Profile say the same thing, because that is something you can fix today.

Why does AI search traffic convert so well?

One Question.marketing client, not named, booked 29 meetings in one month, as Simon reports in the conversation. Figures quoted with permission. 11 were attributed to AI search, from just 20 visits. That is one client's result, not a guarantee. By the time someone arrives from an AI answer, they have often done their research.

Why won't AI-written content get you chosen?

Asking ChatGPT to write a blog tells AI something it already knows. What AI engines lack is knowledge from inside your business. Simon describes transcribing six months of one client's phone calls and finding knowledge nobody had written down.

What happens when customers just ask out loud?

Simon's point is that people type, and speak, the way they talk. His example in the conversation: instead of asking a friend for a driving instructor, a learner may ask their assistant who has the best reviews or the highest pass rate. Simon has also written for Intelligent Instructor about learners asking AI to find them an instructor: https://www.intelligentinstructor.co.uk/social-searching-for-an-instructor/ More on this in our voice search hub: https://question.marketing/voice-search

Watch the short clips

• Being cited isn't the goal. Being chosen is.: Watch the Short
• One small mismatch: Watch the Short
• 20 visits, 11 meetings: Watch the Short. Figures quoted with permission.
• Why AI slop won't get you chosen: Watch the Short
• The most exciting time in search: Watch the Short
• The AI agent that negotiated the hotel: Watch the Short
• The driving instructor: Watch the Short
• What does an AI visibility review actually show you?: Watch the Short
• Soon you will just ask your phone (new): Watch the Short
• People now search the way they speak (new): Watch the Short

FAQ

What is the difference between being cited and being recommended by AI?

Being cited means your page was one of the sources the AI used to build its answer. Being recommended means the AI names your business as the answer. Simon Young argues the second is what brings enquiries.

Why do small inconsistencies matter for AI search?

If your opening hours, address or services differ between your website, Facebook, Instagram and listings such as Google Business Profile or Yelp, an AI engine has a reason not to trust the information and may leave you out.

Does AI search traffic convert better than ad clicks?

In one Question.marketing client's case (client not named; figures quoted with permission), 20 visits from AI search led to 11 of the 29 meetings booked that month. That is one client's result, not a guarantee. AI referrals can be a small share of traffic, but people arriving from an AI answer have often done their research.

Will AI-written blog posts help me get recommended?

Simon Young's view is no: a blog written by asking ChatGPT tells AI something it already knows. Unique knowledge from inside your business, such as what customers ask on calls, is what fills the gaps.

How will voice and AI assistants change local search?

Simon's example: instead of typing "find me a driving instructor" into Google or asking a friend, people may ask their assistant out loud who the local instructor is with the best reviews or highest pass rate. Local businesses need consistent, findable facts for that answer.

What does an AI visibility audit show?

Where you appear now across ChatGPT, Gemini, Perplexity and Google AI Overviews, where competitors appear, which questions drive customers, and where the answers are being pulled from.

Notes on figures

• 00:05: the 86% figure comes from Peec AI's analysis of 500,000 business-focused prompts in April 2026, not all Google searches. Comscore measured AI Overviews on 39.4% of US desktop Google searches in June 2026. https://peec.ai/blog/ai-overviews-is-the-most-undertracked-ai-search-500-000-prompts-show-why
• 07:10: the 15% figure is Google's own, for searches it has never seen before (Google data, December 2023), not prompts typed into LLMs. https://business.google.com/us/think/search-and-video/google-search-innovations/
• 08:10: the client figures (29 meetings in one month, 11 attributed to AI search, from 20 AI search visits) are one unnamed client's results as reported by Simon, quoted with permission, not a guarantee.
• 08:37: the "15 80% of new searches" line is garbled as spoken and is not a sourced figure.
• 15:30: the "web searches down by 50% three months after first using ChatGPT" figure is spoken in the conversation. We have not found a source for it, so treat it as unverified.
• 20:22: the "80 to 90 percent of businesses in the US" figure is spoken by the guest. We have not found a source for it; it is not a figure we have verified.

The transcript below is a machine transcript of the recorded conversation and may contain errors. Figures spoken in it are the speakers' own; the notes above carry our corrections.

Full transcript

00:00 Search is changing: AI Overviews and fewer clicks

So look, we know that search is changing hugely and now 86% of Google search is result in an AI overview at the top of search people just aren't going past the AI overview and that's why we're seeing you know businesses not get as many clicks going through to their website. People aren't clicking the adverts as much and when they get an AI overview and they get and they're just not taking a further piece of action. Another thing that I'm seeing is right now thousands of businesses are still paying for it or I think they're keywords. and the way that Google used to rank their business was something that was important. And the way that consumers are making decisions now is completely changing. I mean, it used It used to be something where you would just type something into Google and it would be a keyword or a key phrase and you would just wait for or a list of links to go through. But now people are having conversations with AI, whether it's ChatGPT or Google or Gemini or AI mode or perplexity, these platforms are now having conversations with the user and interacting with them and providing recommendations and providing information about how to make the decision and informing the consumer on what they need to buy and

01:21 Agentic commerce and getting chosen

how they need to buy. Mario, we're moving into a world where agentic commerce will be so key to your business. You're going to be able to talk to the agent, get the agent to do something for you. Google promised us a long time ago. that they would have the best as in they would provide us the answer to to a question and in the past you've had to go get that answer yourself by going and clicking through all the links doing the research reading all the websites and then making your mind up well the AI overview will now do that for you and the problem is if you don't prepare for that if your business doesn't come in that listing or is recommended so there's a difference between you might have heard the term citation so your website is cited as one of the pieces of information that puts the puzzle together

02:12 Cited vs recommended

for the user. Citations are not necessarily what you want. You want to be recommended or chosen by the AI overview be that you know Google's AI overview or Perplexity or Claude or ChatGPT. One of the engines needs to choose you and there is a very specific process to getting chosen. So you need to do loads of work in terms of how your site is read, you need the traditional SEO piece, hopefully you may well have already done years worth of SEO but we're in a world now where you can see sites that have only been up for one one or two months coming up in the AI overview ahead of sites that that might have been there for 10 or 15 years. So it just doesn't work being number one in Google anymore. That's true. And so how are you doing this? How does this happen? How do customers get listed at the top of these searches and making sure that they're getting recommended?

03:13 The wild west and "hopium"

Well, number one is by working with us, of course. That's right. That's why I'm working with us. The massive problem at the moment is you've got to be really careful because it is like the Wild West. If you go back to the start of Google, people were fighting over positions, and people still fight over SEO positions. And SEO companies will, well, I used to call it hopium. You know, they would sell you the hope that you would get to the top of search To get to the top now. It's

03:43 Third-party trust and consistency

a very specific process. You need to have outreach like digital PR you need to have a presence across multiple surfaces. as they would be called so you know all of your social media needs to line up exactly your brand needs to be talked about consistently but you need more so uh third-party citations so you need third like i could put a website up today um you you know, as a clothing retailer, right? And I could put hundreds of pages into it and I could shout about it and promote it and do everything. right? But that doesn't make me the authority. So when you've got third parties saying that they trust you and your answer is true, then you can be recommended. But if one of the AI engines finds there's an inconsistency across any of your properties. So in a basic example, if on your Facebook page it said that your business is open from 10 AM, and on Instagram it said you're open from 8 AM. the AI, when it reads both of them, will go, well this doesn't match and therefore that simple error will discard you. the Well, that's the one aspect I think that businesses can really do now, like they're watching this video, is making sure that their assets, when we talk about assets assets, we're talking about a website, we're talking about your social media channel, we're talking about links or accounts that you might have with other providers, whether it's in Yelp or Google business. So that consistency is something that you can jump on already. But what's interesting about that is converting, being recommended or showing up in the AI mode. the top of the page of the recommendation and then also still being able to convert that traffic or those eyeballs into actual customers. And there's still the process of converting traffic to sales still requires understanding your customer's psychology and demographics and understanding the sales copy. So that's something we can also help with. But the element of being able to be being at the top of Google and ChatGPT right now, It's like what being on the first page of Google was 20 plus years ago. So there is a very limited opportunity right now to capture your market in a way that it's going to pay dividends for

06:11 The 9 to 12 month window

years to come. I think we're at a really unique time too, right? So being that we're at the beginning of this right now, I feel like the companies that are going to take advantage of it probably have about nine to 12 months before everyone else starts catching up. and really figuring it out. So, I think taking on some of these companies and making sure that you know can't we're one, you know, let's say per industry in an area is, is really going to make such

06:41 Local AI results and natural language

a world of a difference for them. But the other thing that nobody's talking about, and this is the huge opportunity is localization of AI results. So at the moment somebody's going to try and sell you the fact that you might be, you know, you might come up for a very specific phrase now back in the good old days of SEO, it would phrases be you and phrases and keywords we're now talking about that natural language so and one of the one of the stats that I couldn't actually be and only found out a month ago is 15 percent of everything typed into the LLM's on a daily basis is is completely unique has never been typed in before because because people are typing the phraseology in a different way in the way that they actually speak so whereas in the past you would have come up for specific keyword now you're trying to optimize for how people talk and how people ask questions and one of the really key interesting things with AI searches if if we take traditional website, traditional advertising people clicking

07:41 Why AI traffic converts: 20 visits, 11 meetings

on ads. Let's say you get 1000 people people land on your website and your conversion rate is two, three, four, five percent, right? There's 950 plus people that were just completely wasted. They didn't get what they want or they were just browsing. Now when people come through from AI search, they've done all that work. So typically the people that then land after finding you on AI will convert far, far, far better. than they would if they were just normal traffic. Yeah, so a good example of that is one of my clients, I'll not name them, but they booked 29 meetings last month. 11 of those meetings were attributed to AI search, but the traffic from AI search, and it might sound trivial or ridiculously low but it was only 20 visits. So 20 visits resulted in 11 meetings just because the quality of the traffic was so good. I don't think people understand when you say 15 80% of new searches that are happening online through AI now, mostly, are new searches. But that equivolates to hundreds of millions of visitors and people interacting with the web to find the products and services that they're looking for. that that right there opportunity like this in our professional lifetime so time to act now and and the other thing we didn't talk about was knowledge gaps sixty you asked me how do actually achieve getting into the AI if you for example use AI slop, right? So my you know the people go out and generate loads of content using AI that's

09:27 Why AI-written blogs won't get you chosen

basically plagiarism you know your your let's say you write a blog it's about your subject, you just say to write me a blog about xyz it produces a lovely blog, you publish it. That will not find its way into AI search, because you've told it something that AI already knows. Now, if you've got unique knowledge that is in your business, in your business brain, in your employees. We took one of our clients phone calls for the last six months, downloaded them, transcribed them all, uploaded them to a knowledge base, and then within that there is an absolute goldmine of knowledge from

10:05 Your internal knowledge is what AI wants

that business. Then you use that into AI search because. Because you've told it something that AI already knows content which is then unique and then the AI loves it. Jorge, you were telling me about businesses in the US that are paying for AI data to just train their models. That is a whole billion dollar industry right now. Businesses that have a lot of internal data are selling and licensing their data to data to large language models which again this is something that we can the point is the reason why they're doing that is because the information that's in your brain as a business owner, the internal processes, your communication that it happens internally within your team to get the work done is not something that the LLM's have access to but they hungry for it because the future, the future trillion dollar companies are not your traditional tech companies. They're going to be the service companies that are provided by AI agents and AI. It's AI and AI agents doing the work for humans, for other businesses, and that ties directly to what we're talking about here because the data that you have in your brain the data that's happening inside of your business, that's new knowledge that right now the AI models do not have and there's ways to package that up into blogs or into PR or into communication that's disseminated on the web that the [unclear] models the AI is going to take and like and love and actually rank and the data that

11:41 How quickly results show

needs to recommend your business. And I know we talked a little bit about you know what you were doing for some of these companies and initially Jorge when you and I spoke about this you were saying that we're we're expecting to see results in about 30 days, and I think the really exciting part is that the results are really coming up in about 72 hours right once you really start working the system and your process. I know we talked a little bit about you're able to see success

12:12 No guarantees: every AI surface is different

is really incredible. You can make guarantees in this world, the way things are moving, just because like Google are changing the rules almost feels like on a daily basis at the moment. But we have lots and lots of examples of publishing a piece of content. So for example, put a blog, a video across all social media, some more links onto external PR sites, and then seeing that piece of content coming straight to the top of Google, like within 24 hours like number one on Google number one in the Google AI overview you have to then work across all the the other surfaces like perplexity and ChatGPT and Claude lots of other things you've got to do there because each of them are keeping their own knowledge bases, and they're even starting to now block people from, or block, Google are blocking access

13:07 Maintenance still matters

from ChatGPT. you've got Amazon saying that they won't allow musing so the whole world is a massive like it's a such an exciting space now to get involved in There's one element there that you mentioned Simon that I think is very important to note is that and Paul you mentioned how fast we can get results right. Simon talked about how things like Google are changing almost on a the daily basis. There's another there's another element here the maintenance piece right. So SEO in many ways the way that we thought about SEO is that it's changing but the foundation of SEO of making sure your data is consistent across all the the channels. Making sure that pages are not broken they're indexed correctly correctly and there's so many other elements to that. That's still important. That's still a piece of it and that's something that we continue to maintain and monitor because there's millions of data points coming into the web every single day. We monitor the businesses that we work with on a weekly basis to to make sure that the content we're producing the analytics that we're referring to be consistent across the board over time which is extremely important for a business. I think we're also going to have to say we're not selling a cookie cutter recipe. There are a lot of businesses out there that are sucking people into this AI search universe and saying right, yeah, we'll run this strategy for you. One of the examples is is loads of people were putting citations onto Reddit. so they were they would go out they'd use hundreds of aged Reddit accounts they would post a load of stuff and then you would see you know you would see citations you would but then suddenly chat-gpt said right okay we've seen you're doing this we're not we're not but we're not letting you get away with that for very long, but we're now at a point where I try and learn about this and this is why

15:01 The most exciting time in search

it's so exciting. I can honestly say this is probably probably the most exciting time that I've ever seen in search because of the development I called well somebody said am I on crack like six months ago when I said Google could well stop serving search results and like they may well do right in the could be in the next three months six but we already know that the search results the volume of clicks is gone through the floor the stats say that if somebody uses ChatGPT the first time they use it three months later, their web searches are down by 50%. So we know that the change is coming. But what I want to really try and say is I'm a bit of a nerd right and I love this sort of stuff and I stay on this is everything I do right it's the best thing that I can learn something every single day and I've got their gray hair but I have been doing SEO for 25 years but this piece here where we will we will see the evolution of how our whole internet changes over the next

16:07 A third big shift in technology

three to six months. Yeah it's yeah it's wild I'm excited for it I'll tell you this is my third time in a really big pivotal moment in technology right so I actually believe or not went to school for main-frame programming and the whole Y2K thing. And we were at the point where we were searching the deep dark web. We didn't have websites at that time. It was just the beginning and then we launched an e-commerce company at the very beginning of ecommerce when people were still afraid to put credit cards out there on the internet and you know luckily we had that business for 20 plus years and were able to sell that company as, well as a fewavi others and now at this whole AI point I just feel like the companies that take advantage of it right now are the ones that are gonna really go you know so far far of their competition and I know a lot of people are afraid of this whole thing but it's not

17:11 Agentic commerce: the hotel negotiation

going anywhere. It's been around a lot longer than most people realize. I know you Simon have been you know of all of us here you have the most experience with it, with how many years you've been doing it, which is what? How many years would you say you're in the AI space? I started working on the internet pretty much day one and I was ranking websites way way way years before Google so like on things like Lycos and Ask Jeeves and all of those ftp sites and stuff like that. The thing is we need to prepare for agent commerce right? So as we move forward, like a friend of mine, he was looking for a holiday this week, trying to book somewhere... somewhere in Hong Kong and he asked his AI go out find me the deals and negotiate them for me right so he actually the original price was $1100 he got the agent even sent all the emails out to the hotel went backwards and forwards got it down to 850 got him a room upgrade did everything but that's just the tip of where we're going to end up because we're all gonna have our own our own, you know, whether you

18:26 Agents that shop for you

have a website or not. But imagine a scenario, cause this is why Jeff at Amazon is really worried because he's trying to ring fence his shop and not allow anybody else in because there's gonna be a scenario where you just sit here and you say to your agent I need to find this product, can you go and look around for it? And then go and negotiate me a deal and find me, you know, and then the agent will take the payment. You won't even then go on to a website. So we've got to get ready for that. One of the things that I'm seeing there with that specifically is that there's such a huge opportunity I think most people don't understand right now in the high growth space of startups, that the companies that are starting and a few months later, they're valued at billions of dollars. Are the companies that are are building the plumbing, the infrastructure of what what Simon just talked about. Being able to have AI agents and AI go out and do payment processing on your behalf. The infrastructure, the reason, right, the reason why the largest companies in the world are investing hundreds of billions of dollars. into data centers and the infrastructure because at a surface level what we interact with is that software, the websites, the internet. that's the wild wild west from a because anybody can create a new website in a matter of seconds now. Anybody can create an e-commerce store. Anybody can go and create a software very easily now with [unclear] and codex and all these platforms. But what happens behind that? So when a purchase happens on and e-commerce side, there

20:00 What this means for small businesses

still needs to be shipping. There still needs to be somebody physically taking that product and giving to the customer. So now you're talking about all of the shipping companies and the USPS and what's happening to warehouses and what's happening to robots and robotic companies that are helping facilitate that. So there is happening in the business world. But when you talk about the general business owner, so I just mentioned high growth companies, but the majority, 80 to 90 percent of businesses in the US and around the world are not these high-growth companies. They're not the Amazons and Nvidia's of the world. They're the small business owner. that center, a fishing charter, a restaurant, an e-commerce store, a consulting company, a coaching company. They're the ones that are trying to just figure out how to get their next customer, how to have a few customers, how to start getting consistent customers month after month. And they're afraid because there are so many things changing all the time that they don't understand maybe how to put the pieces together to grow their business. So, you know, I think one of the reasons This is why I was excited to do this, was because probably... at some point there's gonna be a business owner that's actually committed to growing right there's business owners that in this is I don't want to get too philosophical but there's business owners that they don't care to grow they are afraid to try new things but the business owners the entrepreneurs the founders that are understanding what we're saying and understand that there's that that we need to as business owners we need to adapt and evolve and if we don't evolve our business is gonna die and we're willing to take a risk or learn you know like Simon's mentioned Simon was talking about AEO back in 2019 2020 right because and so I know Simon I know all of us here we're learners right we're at the cutting edge of technology we're technology we're learning specifically on how to be able to serve businesses better but what's interesting is if you're a technology is not your company or you say

22:04 Hyper-local, personalised answers

time to be learning. You need people that you can count on people that understand this that can really help your business get ready for the future so it's it's exciting. Yeah, it really is so exciting exciting. And tell me, what would you say is the ideal customer? right like who is the right type of business to jump on board with this right away making sure that they're getting that head start so you know is there someone that is maybe too small a world What do you think? Well, the process works for anyone, and we will move into a world where this becomes hyper localized and personalized. so you know if Jorge and I say the same thing right now on traditional Google you may well get the same results whereas in future it will get massively personalized because it will ask you a series of qualifying questions and it will also understand more more you than probably you know about you right so we will any business would benefit from it but I think that the window is going to be small so and when I talk about knowledge gaps this is why those AILM's are paying billions of dollars for uh knowledge to train their you know their surfaces because if But if you can find the gaps,

23:32 Find the knowledge gaps

right? So I keep saying to people, get that knowledge, the good old way to say it would, get it out of your head onto paper, now to digitize that knowledge and the tools that we use find the gaps. So we can say, has that been answered correctly by the LLM? And if it hasn't, and you're the first to put that knowledge into the LLM, you will be the people who are. you but if you it's a process um and anybody can pretty much take advantage of it but you know if you wanted to target particular businesses it would be those that get high return on investment from obviously new customers so I've done a bit of work with recruitment clients law clients software businesses there's all sorts but I'm sure you know there's every every single business should be putting its its footprint or it's you know it put putting that in place now. Yeah. What does that process look like? Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. No, I was gonna say I just want to add to what Simon mentioned. So we are in the process right now of building out software and AI power. to help the

24:42 Matching the work to the business

business owner and what we're doing is we know that there's the full spectrum, if you look at the full spectrum of businesses from enterprise all the way to the solopreneur, there's levels of what the business actually needs when it comes to AI visibility of what they can handle. It makes no sense to give somebody that is a solopreneur to get a hundred leads a day. What are they going to do with that? Right? Or... enterprise, they need mass. amount of content or massive amounts of traffic so that the packages or the value of the the services that we're providing have to be packaged to help the business meet

25:24 "My business is all relationships"

its goals. So when we work with the business we got to figure out and understand what their goal is as a business operation what can they handle what do they have in place to be able to handle the traffic the influx of leads and also the businesses there's certain businesses that are very relationship driven right I talked to a business owner yesterday she has a IT staffing and recruitment company I thought. Of course AEO and AI visibility can help her but in her mind she immediately said oh that I'm not interested in that that doesn't work for me right my business is all relationship driven the IT manager is not you know dealing um interacting with online ads right they're going to ask for a referral I get that there's still an element of relationships and people want to do business with people correct but the businesses that take advantage of that right on the recruitment side you have the candidates that can be reached with AEO you also have that you're only serving a small number of IT managers for for in this example that don't interact with online content but that's not everybody so you know that that kind of coming more and more with businesses but the reality is is that AEO is for every single business it just it determines what type of service or product what package is best to meet their goals So I had a good example Jorge of you know you said it's about relationships and that customer or potential customer said this

27:01 Ask your phone: the driving instructor example

isn't for me. Well, I just published an article in one of the driving instructor magazines in the UK and the point of the article was, you know, currently or maybe if if we go back a year or two you would probably either type into Google find me a driving instructor or you would ask a friend. Well in the future your friend is going to be your agentic assistant and you're going to speak you are going to speak to your device. rather than me picking up the phone I might say yeah who's the local driving instructor that you know gets the best reviews or has gets the most the highest pass rate and that will be the person you ask so it's just

27:42 What an AI visibility review shows

about getting ready for that. That's true and just one last question, so what does the process look like right what is the onboarding like for a company and you know how heavy of a lift is it for them? So that we start out with a visibility audit so you somebody sits at the moment because you might see that they're doing really well in their own brand search but you can then see where the competitors competitors sit and you can see the amount of work that they've done or not done and you will typically see that that where the opportunities lie so you'll run a whole load of prompts that the business will will have a discussion around what you would want to come up for obviously it, it's really easy to see what conversations would then turn into do. If you look on Google, there's a section which people also ask. So when you ask a question, you'll see tons and tons of questions that go around the topic. And then you can see where the intent lives. So you can say, you know, that question would drive a customer, this one would, etc, etc. So once you work out what that conversation looks like, there's I don't want to get too technical, but there's something called a fan out, a fan out query. So when a question is asked, the sources, all the answers come from multiple directions in terms of different websites, directories, all sorts, trust sites, the lot. Working out what that pattern looks like is where the skill comes into the content that we want to then build for someone but we will then come back and say look this is where you are now and this is where we think we can get you to within 30, 60,

29:18 How to get an AI visibility review

90 days. And just to add to that, we are offering a free AI visibility audit to anybody listening, anybody watching, anybody interested in learning how their business sits in this world of AI visibility and how AI can be integrated to their business to help them grow, we're offering that for free because it's something that business owners need to understand and once you have the report you can as a business owner you can make the decision of hey I'm gonna try to handle it myself or I have somebody that can do it or maybe we can help you so definitely reach out definitely comment email to let us know that you want an AI visibility audit no cost whatsoever, no commitment, we'd be happy to provide that to you. I think it'll be really eye-opening for a lot of business-owners. I don't think that you know business owners are realizing where they're going to come up with an audit like that. So I think it's incredible that, you know, you're offering it for free and I think they should definitely take advantage of it. A thousand percent. So looking forward to it. I think the businesses that don't unfortunately, I see this over and over again. Years will go by, right, things will be changing all around the business owner and at some point they, they get to a point in the near future where they don't understand why they're not growing. Their sales have declined, losing their people, their business competitors around them to have a lot less experience are growing faster than them. And then they wonder why. This is one of the reasons why that's going to happen to businesses that don't jump on this.